To Youtube or Not To Youtube

TullyBascombe · Post by **TullyBascombe** » 15 years ago

Studies show that music that is shown and downloaded the most on the internet also sells the most. Surveys show that having an artist's works on display definitely increases sales. People who download buy a significantly greater amount of music than those who don't, and when you survey individuals who buy and download there is a relationship - people buy what they download. All in all the objective facts would tend to indicate that the music industry's attempts to combat internet posting and downloading of their artists' works is self defeating. The real reason why music sales and profits have been declining for the past 15+ years is that music is getting competition from other forms of personal entertainment - DVDs, games, the internet. Kids used to spend a lot of their spare time parked in front of the record player, the tape deck or the CD player. Today they also have the choice of the Xbox, the Playstation, the DVD player, or the computer. If the music industry doesn't wise up and let these other forms of entertainment work for it they might wind up shrinking a lot more than they had anticipated.

We should face it, we may think the world of Libera, but they're not very popular. They can use all the exposure they can get. If Libera's management succeeds in removing new Libera material from You Tube how long do you think it will be before people who are only somewhat interested in Libera's music lose track of them and move on to something else? Simply stated, they have nothing to lose by having their concerts displayed on YouTube. The diehard fans will have the satisfaction of keeping up with changes in the group. There will be a chance to pick up new fans. The church where the concert took place gets some advertisement. If there is the possibility that a professional recording might be made, the amateur recording offers no real competition. If I showed you an amateur recording of the Leiden concert, would you be dissuaded from buying the DVD? I think not. If anything you would be more likely to sheel out for the better version. The only possible downside of allowing people to display amateur recordings of Libera concerts is that the amateur version may be of so poor quality that it turns off the viewer who doesn't know the difference.

(This post was actually meant to be a reply to the Arundel concert thread. I hit the wrong button.)

Digs · Post by **Digs** » 15 years ago

Well said Tullybascombe! Youtube is how I discovered Libera and why I went on to buy several of their Cd's. Without the Youtube exposure I would have never heard of them. This holds true for a lot of the music Cd's and downloads I have purchased lately. I come across a artist or song I like on youtube or elsewhere online, and I buy their music. The record companies are hurting sales not helping by removing their music.
The fact is it is copyrighted music of course, and they should be able to decide how they want it presented. I can understand not wanting people trying to record their performances, it would be a real nuisance trying to enjoy the concert if everyone were trying to video it.
Anyway I myself think the record companies made a very big mistake making youtube take down their music. I guess if I cant discover new music on the Internet anymore, I wont be buying Cd's or downloads either.

TEB · Post by **TEB** » 15 years ago

To the best of my knowledge, I thought Libera had an official YouTube page where they had all the different YT video's.
I do think that they should lighten up a bit it worrying about where their publicity comes from. Any publicity is good publicity. Word of mouth only goes so far.

xsakurax · Post by **xsakurax** » 15 years ago

I think it's really true about what TullyBascombe has mentioned. I stumbled upon Libera through youtube too. And it's the Youtube videos that gets me more and more interested in Libera. Even though the Libera in concert DVD videos are easily available on youtube, it doesn't stop me from getting the real DVD, all the way from America (I had to pester/beg a friend to get it for me when she went there.) In a way, I think it's the youtube videos that makes me want to own the CDs/DVDs more than ever before.

However, certain restrictions should indeed be abide by. But I guess fan videos are pretty much harmless, it's more of "free publicity", so I doubt they will actually ask us to take them down.

JimmyRiddle · Post by **JimmyRiddle** » 15 years ago

To be fair, the only material Libera have objected to being hosted on YouTube is the bootleg amateur recordings from their live concert performances. Every conceivable single track from all their CD’s seem to be on YouTube, as have lots of fan tribute videos with backing tracks from their many Albums. I have come across some video’s were audio tracks have been removed by copyright objection by other big record companies, leaving just a silent shell of a video; at least Libera leave these video’s alone. Also their Leiden DVD has been ripped and plastered all over YouTube (some of them extremely poor quality rips), and Libera (who knows it could even be EMI) have not asked for these video’s to be removed. Indeed removal requests have come from other sources i.e. BBC for Songs of Praise video’s, and I think the agent of Aled Jones asked for some of his video’s to be removed. Unless we are coming upto the bi-annual sweep for video removals, even the BBC seems to be relaxing its stance lately.

In many respects I think ‘Libera’/EMI have been fairly flexible and tolerant in allowing lots of their copyright material to remain on YouTube without the copyright holder’s permission. I believe they too know that probably their biggest recruitment of fans and thus eventual customer’s are originally sourced from the internet and video hosting sites like YouTube. I even came across Libera this way myself.

I think they draw an understandable line with amateur bootleg recordings though, the way these recording devices have to be concealed to avoid detection, mean they get moved a lot and their sensitive microphones pick up lots of external noise or they are muffled. All this detracts against the overall sound quality compared to actually being there and listening freely with your own two ears. Attending a live concert is an amazing experience, and being submersed into that visual and audio surround atmosphere cannot be equalised by sitting in front of your PC listening to a not so great recording with your headphones.

Now I must admit when I saw those concert recordings on YouTube, my first reaction was to click on them, and had I not been in work I probably would have. The cherries were in the fruit basket and the temptation to pick them was overbearing. In retrospect, I probably would have enjoyed it the first time, appreciated it the second time, and felt guilty the third time, knowing that they should be served better.

Maybe if they provided an occasional compilation highlights video of each concert like they did for Norwood 2007, then that would satisfy the desires of all those that are unable to attend their live concerts.

RiseInGlory · Post by **RiseInGlory** » 15 years ago

I agree with the above post 100%. Libera's YouTube policy thus far has been much more liberal than other artists, and the recent incident was not a change in that policy.

TEB · Post by **TEB** » 15 years ago

Now I have seen 4 bootleg videos from the Crystal Catherdral performance. The quality is poor. Badly focused, actually not focused at all. Whenever the camera operator aimed towards the big screen, it got even worse.
I am hoping there was an actual official video of the performances that will make the rounds. Then no one will miss the bootlegs.

Lady Lolly · Post by **Lady Lolly** » 15 years ago

From my understanding cameras were allowed during the morning mass... Im not sure if you know or not, there is actually the DVD is for sale of the Hour of Power that contains the whole morning performances... the quality is quite good I believe... also on the youtube channel for the crystal cathedral, they have posted the videos there as well

I hope i'm not passing on info you already know

TEB · Post by **TEB** » 15 years ago

Lady Lolly wrote:From my understanding cameras were allowed during the morning mass... Im not sure if you know or not, there is actually the DVD is for sale of the Hour of Power that contains the whole morning performances... the quality is quite good I believe... also on the youtube channel for the crystal cathedral, they have posted the videos there as well

I hope i'm not passing on info you already know

Thanks for the info.

Lady Lolly · Post by **Lady Lolly** » 15 years ago

Anything to help

Yorkie · Post by **Yorkie** » 15 years ago

Good posts all and well argued from both sides.

I found Libera on YouTube and without the tube I wouldn't be here. This debate has me torn in two to be honest. I watched all the YouTube stuff I could before I downloaded (not legally I should add

) their albums.

I listened to the albums and decided to buy the whole lot + DVD from Amazon. So, that is a good few quid (£'s to you non-British readers) that they have obtained from me because of YouTube.

Now I fully respect Libera's request about not filming their concerts. It is only right that their wishes be followed. But really, who is going to watch those poor recordings and for what benefit? Only the die hard fans intent on sucking up every last drop we can and we will still buy the records and attend the concert (if we can) anyway!

They lose nothing from having the recordings on YouTube, but I think we need to respect their request.

Liberation · Post by **Liberation** » 15 years ago

Yes indeed, we need to respect their request. And they have already been very tolerant if you look at the © rules.
I am one of those who buys everything even when it's on youtube, I buy the original album and not only 1 but the Japanese versions too because of the extra's. I already ordered the dvd from the 'Hour of power' show too. But I understand the fear that some people will not buy albums anymore because they get them from the net.

It was through another forum which made me familiar with libera on youtube and that was the first time for me. Although, that was what I thought because I did not noticed in the first place that libera was the same as 'Angel voices' and 'The St. Philips boys choir' which I already had heard of even before I had internet.