The Best Treble Choir in London

[Yorkie]

Apologies for the delay so far. I've finished the write-up on Westminster Abbey Choir, but I thought I'd post everything together. Need just a few days more.

We'll wait patiently - as long as it's a good read

[thewhyb]

We'll wait patiently - as long as it's a good read

Lol, then I better not make everyone wait too long. Here we go: http://whitelibera.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ongs-2013/

I'm no expert on choral technicalities and specifics, so this is really an amateur's report in appreciation of the experts' help rendered on this forum. I've named my personal favourite in bold, so readers can skip the other parts if they want.

[Yorkie]

Thank you for the enjoyable read - So King's was your choice then. Well, you can't really beat kids wandering around in capes and top hats like something out of Harry Potter can you? You need to try to here St John's though and New College in Oxford if you get the chance.

I was interested that you said you arrived at St Paul's in time, but were unable to get a decent seat - what time did you get there? If it was later than 4pm you were you were late! To be honest, as long as you are to the left side of the seating area under the dome by 4:45pm when they announce over the speaker system to go to the gate on the left if you want to sit in the choir stalls you should be ok. Unfortunately, the services do get a lot of tourists who have no idea how to behave. I was at the Abbey once seated in the nave and 4 Italian women talked through the prayers, the readings, and the hymns. I suspect they wouldn't have done the same at their local church back home.

And, yes they do restrict access to the Abbey during services and concerts. Maybe it's to stop people seeing things for free but I suspect it's more likely to be security so people don't wander of and hide and then get locked in overnight to commit who knows what mischief.

[thewhyb]

Thank you for enjoying it! Do you have a favourite choice as well? Right, the capes and top hats are totally out-of-this-world. Very chic. Did all Brits dress like that in the past? I walked past St John's (and I remember it was mentioned in this forum), but their evensong was a little late. I was in Oxford, but I hadn't heard of New College. Websites look good. May need to re-visit these places again.

Erm, yes I was later than 4pm. Arrived about 10 minutes before the service at 4.50pm. Ah, another missed opportunity! Is there a rush for stall seats when the announcement is made? Oh the experience you had was horrible! The ushers should really be doing more. The ushers at King's were good. Those at St Paul's were more concerned with mobile phones than people moving around.

Are there services where the Abbey opens up the entire Abbey for the public? Currently, they use this "divider" (I don't know what it's called.) (http://whitelibera.files.wordpress.com/ ... photo1.jpg) Is it movable? The boys came through from there during this concert.

[Yorkie]

Thank you for enjoying it! Do you have a favourite choice as well? Right, the capes and top hats are totally out-of-this-world. Very chic. Did all Brits dress like that in the past? I walked past St John's (and I remember it was mentioned in this forum), but their evensong was a little late. I was in Oxford, but I hadn't heard of New College. Websites look good. May need to re-visit these places again.

Erm, yes I was later than 4pm. Arrived about 10 minutes before the service at 4.50pm. Ah, another missed opportunity! Is there a rush for stall seats when the announcement is made? Oh the experience you had was horrible! The ushers should really be doing more. The ushers at King's were good. Those at St Paul's were more concerned with mobile phones than people moving around.

Are there services where the Abbey opens up the entire Abbey for the public? Currently, they use this "divider" (I don't know what it's called.) (http://whitelibera.files.wordpress.com/ ... photo1.jpg) Is it movable? The boys came through from there during this concert.

New College is my current favourite 'traditional' choir with St John's a close second And yes we did all dress like that - have you never seen Oliver!? I still pop on a top hat and cape most any chance I get!

Last time I was at St Paul's they announced the possibility of sitting in the choir stalls at 4:45 over the public address system and there was a big rush of people. However, if you hang around the left hand side of the dome you should have no problem grabbing a seat. Oh, and when I was there somebody's mobile/cell phone did ring partway through a hymn and it took her a while to find it buried in her handbag/purse

I don't claim to be an expert, but i think the only chance you get to wonder round the Abbey is to pay the entrance fee and do the tourist thing. Well worth it in my opinion and if you do add on an extra £3 and take the Verger tour. I can't quite place that screen - you certainly get a very good view of the Abbey if you do Evensong because you can see the the choir stalls, ornate Quire screen and the high alter.

#edit# looking at some online photos I think that screen is permanent and they must chose to hold concerts in that part of the Abbey to fit in as many people as possible and for them to have a view of the choir. Evensong would allow you to see more.

[Yorkie]

The BBC did an interesting 3 part documentary on Westminster Abbey last year and it is well worth watching. Unfortunately, I can only find the first two parts on YouTube:

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[BBvideo 425,350][/BBvideo]

[thewhyb]

Oh, I missed seeing both of your favourites! I definitely will the next time. I've seen different versions of Oliver, but he seems simply dressed most of the time; King's outfit looks a bit more "aristocratic"? You wear the top hat even today? Classy.

I was worried of a stampede at St Paul's! Glad to hear that one should have no problem grabbing a seat at 4.45pm. I'll try it next time. It takes multiple visits and expert advice to learn these tricks. Oh, people with ringing phones that cannot be stopped immediately should seriously learn to walk away.

Thanks for the explanation about that screen. King's has it as well, but most people can fit in the area after the screen in front, so it's not really a bother as much as it is at Abbey. Having the screen for evensong means that people have to arrive earlier as well to grab a seat in front of the screen? Would certainly like to see the full Abbey one day.

Thanks for the vids! They look pretty recent. If I recall correctly, some of the boys were present at the concert on 15 May. The training and selection looks a tad competitive, but I reckon they know what to do to produce the best results.

[Yorkie]

Thanks for the explanation about that screen. King's has it as well, but most people can fit in the area after the screen in front, so it's not really a bother as much as it is at Abbey. Having the screen for evensong means that people have to arrive earlier as well to grab a seat in front of the screen? Would certainly like to see the full Abbey one day.

No, for Evensong at the Abbey there is no screen but there are only a limited number of chairs from which you can see the alter and the choir. Basically, the chairs are set up in the North and South Transepts with the choir to the West (and I think the screen you noted separates the choir from the rest of the nave) and the High Alter to the East.

Old map of the abbey

As you can tell from the plan, you wouldn't need to be too far back in the North or South transept to not be able to see.

[thewhyb]

Ah, right. It looks like a very limited view for most. The whole area seems small on the map. I remember that in order to visit to washroom, I had to walk past a blue gate and onto a space on the right, where there was a door leading out to the washroom. Do you know if that would be the North Transept area, or the Nave area? Trying to visualise.

[Yorkie]

Ah, right. It looks like a very limited view for most. The whole area seems small on the map. I remember that in order to visit to washroom, I had to walk past a blue gate and onto a space on the right, where there was a door leading out to the washroom. Do you know if that would be the North Transept area, or the Nave area? Trying to visualise.

I think it would be off the nave but I'm not 100% sure.

[thewhyb]

Ok, thanks for all the information!

[j8000]

I know this thread is very old but it popped up when I was searching for information on St Paul's which I visited for evensong for the first time yesterday.

In case anyone else is searching for information I thought I would put an update here that apparently it is no longer possible to sit in the quire. I asked and was told "No. For child protection reasons we can't let anyone in there except family members. Not these days".

I ended up sitting under the dome, and I have to echo some other comments on this thread that the sound quality there is really quite dreadful. The choir were singing Byrd and Gibbons, probably very well, but I couldn't make out a single word due to the terrible acousitc. The anthem was almost unrecognisable. In parts it sounded like the choir had been asked to stand at the other end of a 200ft concrete sewer pipe and "shout at will". The whole thing didn't even feel like a service, even the sermon was difficult to follow with the echoes from the amplification drowning out the actual words that proceeded them.

Anyway to end on a better note I can thoroughly recommend Westminster Abbey, their most recent recording was truly sublime, the acoustic of the abbey although difficult complements rather than defeats the choir, and the seating arrangements are much more conducive to feeling like you are part of the service.

[Yorkie]

What child protection issues can there possibly be from sitting with 60 other adults at a religious service?

Honestly, I think St Paul's has lost the plot.

[maartendas]

Sad to hear that, j8000. St. Paul's and its notorious echo... If I recall correctly, the choir sits more in front, near the dome part, during communion services, so you might give that a try next time.
I second your praise for the Abbey, it is a sublime place to visit in all possible aspects and their choir is superb.

[TrebleVoices]

The best treble choirs based in London and in towns close by, as ranked by me, based on concerts I attended in 2018. All the concerts were held in London venues.

Choir of King's College, Cambridge
Choir of New College, Oxford
Choir of St Georges Chapel, Windsor
Christ Church Cathedral Choir, Oxford
Schola Cantorum of the Cardinal Vaughan Memorial School
Trinity Boys' Choir
Temple Church Choir
Westminster Abbey Choir
Schola Cantorum of the London Oratory School
Ealing Abbey Choir
Bromley Boy Singers
St Pauls Cathedral Choir
Tiffin Boys' Choir
Westminster Cathedral Choir

The top spot was difficult to decide, but I think based on their superb, mostly acapella, concert in Cadogan Hall earlier in the year and their lovely Christmas concert in the Royal Festival Hall, the Choir of King's College, Cambridge just edge it. In the past they've too often sang with accompaniment that drowned them out, but this year they got it spot on.

The Choir of New College, Oxford has some excellent trebles and I love the emphasis on giving chances for solo performances. Very narrowly beaten, and only because I remember, at the concert early in the year, being annoyed that a third of the choir was obscured by a massive harpsichord placed right in the middle of the stage!

The Choir of St Georges Chapel, Windsor had a super sound and the choir was amazingly well drilled, sitting down on their seats in unison at the Organ intervals! If I ever marry a prince, I'd be quite happy to have them sing at my wedding too...

The Christ Church Cathedral Choir, Oxford have given some terrific performances in the past, and their vocal quality is still excellent, only song selection put them lower for me.

Schola Cantorum of the Cardinal Vaughan Memorial School will undoubtedly be familiar to some here. Their selection of music this year wasn't as much to my taste as in the past, although their performance of Handel's Messiah was once again excellent. There was also a joyous moment for me at that concert when I looked up from my second row seat into the front row of the choir and almost said out loud "OMG that's Oli...!"

Trinity Boys Choir has its fingers in many pies, with some excellent soloists, smaller tour choirs and a varied repertoire. I have never been disappointed to hear them.

Temple Church Choir always has a fantastic sound. However, Temple Church as a concert venue is appalling. Guessing the best place to sit is nigh impossible.

Westminster Abbey Choir is fine, but I've never left feeling blown away by their singing. Also getting a decent seat at some of the concerts there is almost as challenging as Libera... I once gambled on a restricted view seat and the ONLY thing I could see was a massive pillar... and I wish I was exaggerating...

Schola Cantorum of the London Oratory School drops down in my ranking this year. I've neither enjoyed their repertoire that much nor been that impressed by the singing, at least compared to some past concerts of theirs.

Ealing Abbey Choir is a new find for me for 2018 and I was impressed. I attended a concert of theirs for remembrance day and I remember being pleasantly surprised by the quality of their singing.

Bromley Boy Singers can at times be really lovely, but they've also given one of the dullest concerts I've been to.

St Pauls Cathedral Choir sung in a combined theatre/concert event in the OBE chapel under the cathedral in June last year. Good, but nothing that stood out for me as exceptional.

My ranking for Tiffin Boys' choir is maybe a little unfair as I only heard them as part of Verdi's Requiem. Although, I have previously attended a concert that was recorded for BBC radio and even at that one they were good, but not brilliant.

On the other hand, Westminster Cathedral choir were very poor at the one concert of theirs I attended this year, so they take the bottom spot. I will say that they have been better in previous concerts.

There are a handful of other choirs in London I know about such as the Choir of the Chapel Royal, Hampton Court Palace, but they very rarely do proper concerts. I've also left out some other smaller and mixed choirs I heard last year.