Well, I have always been a fan of classical music and boys' voices. In particular, the English boys choir tradition has struck me as being unique in the world - though some German language choirs such as Tölzer Knabenchor and Wiener Sängerknaben have been just as good, only with a different sound and a different repertoire.
Honestly, I have frowned upon popular choirs such as Libera - I have believed such talented boys were wasting their time in subpar repertoire and artificial electronic effects.
What caught my attention first was the performance of Mini Ben and Josh in "Time" - I simply found that song impossible not to like. Mini Ben's superb, firm and clear soprano tackled some rather difficult intervals with ease, raising the whole experience to another level. This is not complex music but the two soloists make listening worthwhile and rewarding in its own way.
More recently, Ralph excelled in "Song of Life" which - while still being a simple pop song - was raised to a very high level by Ralph's beautiful and flexible voice. I still find this song the greatest that Libera has ever done. Ralph transcends the barriers between classical and popular and manages to transform the entire experience into art, no small feat for a 13 year old.
Which, I guess, is what enjoyment is all about. So classical or not, Libera does have its moments. Looking back, there is many more recordings on a high level - but few come close to the excellence of these two songs.
I still think there is too much electronica surrounding these magnificent voices. But I guess that is what Libera's fanbase wants. When the gimmicks become too obnoxious, I shall gladly return to King's College and others
Interesting thoughts, scarbo and it shows the range of interests in Libera's audience. Not all of their fans are as mad about choirs as you and some others here
Oh and I think I can safely say you and I are both Ralph fans. I too have said before he's an artist. I hope the future's bright for his talents.
You raise me high beyond the sky
Through stormy night lifting me above
Ralph transcends the barriers between classical and popular and manages to transform the entire experience into art, no small feat for a 13 year old.
This is, I think, what Libera does best, and why they have such a wide and devoted fanbase. I had just turned 12 when I first discovered Libera, and while I was raised on classical music with a smattering of classic rock, I was completely unaware of the emotional connection that musicians have to their music. When I came across Libera on YouTube, I didn't see a classical boys choir as much as I saw a group of kids my own age who very clearly cared deeply about their music, and could express themselves through music at a level I was unaware of. For that, I credit Libera for showing me how to approach music from a completely different angle, that took my technical abilities as a musician and helped me apply those skills to express myself through my music.
The way Libera acts as a bridge between classical and pop music also widened the range of music I listen to. While I love traditional boy choirs (King's College, Tolzer Knabenchor, Westminster Cathedral Choir, etc.), on the other side of the spectrum, I also listen to a lot of pop/rock/indie/alternative. I'm not sure I'd have the same appreciate for all types of music without Libera, because it was Libera that changed my view of music from purely a honed skill, to an art form.
I'm sure everybody has a different take on what makes Libera's music so appealing to so many people from different walks of life, but I think the expression that the singers in Libera display certainly something that separates them from more traditional choirs, where that sense of art and emotion is not always as valued as technical perfection.
Thanks for such an in depth post Scarbo! There is alot of material to think about here
In general, it seems to me that the various instruments and lightings that accompany a Libera concert are only there to enhance the boy's voices, meaning they are not there to distract. I can see that eventually they could get to be to much, but for the present time they are, as I said before, there merely to intensify and bring out the boy's voices and to help illustrate the moods of the various songs. Personally, I am a fan of the more traditonal choir and of early music, but naturally since Libera is working at trying to appeal to a more modern-minded crowd (since that unfortunately includes a large majority of the population today) Robert Prizemann has to strive to make their music a crossover between the two worlds, incorperating church music with more popular themes. I thinks that he does very well at achieving this. And it really is wonderful that so many modern-minded people enjoy listening to their music
As far as their music goes, they have had ups and downs. But I think that overall, the Libera that we know still manages to keep some of the strong choral heritage that they started with so long ago.
dolorosa, flumenosa, desolata, lacrimabila-
the water sighs for me
Through teardrops now I see
The streaming water knows
The fountain overflows
To cry for all, to wash all sorrows in waves of peace and love
Free my thirsty soul again
O living fountain Twitter Acount: ArtisticTempest
Julia wrote:Thanks for such an in depth post Scarbo! There is alot of material to think about here
In general, it seems to me that the various instruments and lightings that accompany a Libera concert are only there to enhance the boy's voices, meaning they are not there to distract. I can see that eventually they could get to be to much, but for the present time they are, as I said before, there merely to intensify and bring out the boy's voices and to help illustrate the moods of the various songs. Personally, I am a fan of the more traditonal choir and of early music, but naturally since Libera is working at trying to appeal to a more modern-minded crowd (since that unfortunately includes a large majority of the population today) Robert Prizemann has to strive to make their music a crossover between the two worlds, incorperating church music with more popular themes. I thinks that he does very well at achieving this. And it really is wonderful that so many modern-minded people enjoy listening to their music
As far as their music goes, they have had ups and downs. But I think that overall, the Libera that we know still manages to keep some of the strong choral heritage that they started with so long ago.
Julia, you are making some excellent points. I have never seen Libera live - so perhaps my skepticism is a product of never having experienced the complete picture, all I have is their videos on youtube and a cd. I can certainly imagine the atmosphere surrounding a Libera recital, complete with their hoods, light show and electronics. I might even come to enjoy it.
My problem with Libera lies elsewhere, namely in the quality of the music they so excellently perform. What I hear is bits and pieces of classical music written for other venues (piano music, symphonies, etc.), straight pop, and some original compositions that, once you are familiar with their style, are - with a few notable exceptions - predictable and pedestrian.
Also, there is a great deal of pseudo religious material that may look and sound 'cute' to the general public, but once you start digging for a little more depth, you will quickly reach the bottom. Libera has charm, lots of it, they are very skilled in what they do and they convey a sense of healthy confidence that suits them well. It seems to me that the tough training they receive, all the hard work they do, lead to popularity and stardom, But - and this is important - it seldom leads to musical fulfillment or even presents a musical challenge. What I am trying to say is, with Libera's skill level, what they do is simply too easy for them - maybe not technically, but artistically.
I would be a happy fan if they would just once or twice perform something they would see as a real challenge, some bona fide composition they couldn't hide behind even if they tried. The funny thing is I think they would do just fine - but it might not fit in with their 'image'. In a way, I feel these brilliantly talented kids are being deprived of something great... and it does bother me somehow.
Sorry if I come across as rambling, but I do have difficulties expressing myself in English (which is my second language)...
Anyhow, if I did't care for Libera I wouldn't post here... maybe some day Mr. Prizeman will see the light lol...
scarbo wrote:
What I am trying to say is, with Libera's skill level, what they do is simply too easy for them - maybe not technically, but artistically.
I would be a happy fan if they would just once or twice perform something they would see as a real challenge, some bona fide composition they couldn't hide behind even if they tried. The funny thing is I think they would do just fine - but it might not fit in with their 'image'. In a way, I feel these brilliantly talented kids are being deprived of something great... and it does bother me somehow.
What about songs like Voca Me, Be Still My Soul, The Lamb, Air, Mother of God? I think there's more hard work being done, vocally, than you give them credit for.
Remember, the boys all do this besides their ordinary lives, which need to be structured around Libera. That's not like the regimented discipline of boarding schools at many traditional choral foundations. Maintaining a rehearsal schedule demands a lot from the boys and their families (even though the boys themselves say it's a lot of fun).
Also, the composition of the choir is very fluid, due to the same loose structure of Libera. And this freedom means Robert has to be constantly creative in finding the right repertoire for the right voices and vice versa.
This needs to be taken into account when talking about Libera's musical achievements. Just saying
You raise me high beyond the sky
Through stormy night lifting me above
I agree 100% with what maartendaas said. And I'd like to add a few points of my own also.
First of all, musically, I don't think Libera is inferior to other choirs. I'm not sure what kind of musical piece you're looking for when you say that you want something that's really challenging for them. From what I can hear, they often have just as many harmonies as many traditional boys choirs, can sing just as high, put just as much feeling into their music, and sing in front of as large (or larger) audiences as traditional boys choirs do. And yes - as Maartendaas said - they're not structured the way many boys choirs are structured. They probably have a bit of a disadvantage, since they're not a boarding school, and since when some boy moves or has to leave the choir for some other reason, they can lose a fantastic singer (think of mini-James, Flynn, Freddie...). I've heard a boy choir with a more traditional style, which, similar to Libera, was not a boarding school and had the kids meet after school to practice. It didn't sound nearly as good as a traditional boy choir, and it didn't sound nearly as good as Libera, either.
I agree there are some songs that I'm sure would be tough for any particular Libera boy to sing, like that Mozart's Exsultate ( - I've tried to sing it and it's not easy in the least. But not every boy from a traditional choir sings that either. As far as songs like Panis Angelicus, Deep Peace, and others that you might hear a traditional choir sing, I think that Libera sings them quite well, although not in the exact same way. In certain songs, I admit that I miss the lower voices you'd find in a choir with boys and men (which is one reason I love it when Libera lets their back row shine through a little more), but in most cases, I still like Libera's version just as well or better.
As far as just the sound of the music, much of Libera's music is (in my opinion) extremely beautiful. I understand that that comes down to personal opinion, but at any rate, it's not just a bunch of electronified cheesy stuff. If Libera only sang songs like, say, Adoramus, I think I'd understand your perspective a little better - I could see why a fan of traditional choirs might not like Adoramus and similar songs, even though it's a song I really like. But - like Maartendaas said - that's not all they sing. One reason I like them so much is that their music isn't all the same.
I also disagree that Libera's music is mostly pseudo-religious and sounds cutesy but has no substance. If you're talking about lyrics, many of their more upbeat songs (Stay With Me, for instance) could be interpreted as non-religious if you didn't know Latin. However, I suspect that Robert Prizeman has a bit of fun playing with the Latin and English lyrics and making them contrast but somehow connect. In many songs, the Latin lyrics seem to be more religious and more straightforward, and the English lyrics often seem to be either more poetic "I am the day, soon to be born," "a silent mystery, the break of day" etc., or, in other cases, more personal or ambiguous and less like a solid religious statement - "free me to fly away", "for ever stay with me" "can you lift me away, from the dark of this day". Then the Latin lyrics are often like "we adore you, King of glory, with endless praise" "save me, Lord, from death" "Lord God, have mercy on me." A lot of people probably miss the Latin half, since not everyone knows Latin. I'm not sure if Robert Prizeman arranges his songs that way because he wants there to be more to his songs than most people realize, or if he just thinks Latin is a beautiful language. (By the way, did anyone notice how Robert Prizeman arranged Carol of the Bells in such a way that it could be a religious song?)
Of course, not all of Libera's religious songs are in mixed languages - Sing Forever is completely in English, and definitely is religious - and some are completely in Latin, like Sempiterna. And they sing their own arrangements of hymns/religious songs, like Abide With Me, Be Still My Soul, Panis Angelicus, Adoro Te, Ave Maria, and Deep Peace, and some of their other songs borrow lyrics from hymns and liturgy - like How Shall I Sing That Majesty, Sanctissima, and Sanctus. (In my opinion, How Shall I Sing That Majesty is not only one of Libera's most beautiful songs musically, but one of their songs with the most beautiful and thought-provoking lyrics - try to picture a sea without a shore. It's a song that actually makes you think, if you take the time to think about it.) And then, of course, they do sing some non-religious songs - Time, Lullabye, Orinoco Flow, Air, Touch the Sky - but I don't think that's any serious flaw. They're not a totally religious choir, though they often sing religious music. My point is basically that lyric-wise, they're not just singing fluff. The only real pseudo-religious song I can think of off-hand is Eternal Light. You might be able to say Love and Mercy is a little "fluff-like" also, but it's not all that bad, and it's not all they sing.
Finally - one of the cool things about Libera is that it's not a traditional boys choir. There really aren't lots of groups like Libera - I can't think of any, in fact, that could be closely compared. The boys in Libera have a lot of talent, which is used to create something relatively distinct which a lot of people enjoy. Of course, as a result of that, hardcore classical choir fans like yourself might not be big fans of Libera, and that's okay. I'm not saying you need to be a big fan, but since you seem to enjoy a healthy debate, I'm going to go ahead and debate in Libera's favor.
ETA - just realized this post is really long. Sorry about that - I kind of enjoy debating.
I have avoided the thread up until now as it seems a bit loaded.
However, at this point I just want to say that there seems to be some confusion about Libera, Libera's music & style, and the ability of the boys. Week in week out the boys form part of the choir of St Philip where they sing normal Anglican liturgical music; the same music performed by the 'better' English choirs referred to in the original post. Earlier this year I was lucky enough to attend a rather excellent performance of theirs of John Rutter's Requiem with sting quartet. It seemed every bit as good to me as what I have heard in Cathedrals with professional choirs.
Libera is something they do on the side for fun. The day job is participating in services at St Philip's twice a week on Sunday. Without Libera I suspect that it would be very difficult to recruit kids to perform in the choir. Finally, it is fine not to like their style, many Traditionalists don't. But anybody that considers WSK to be good really shouldn't be pointing out the perceived failings of other groups.
If I’ve got owt to say I says it, and if I’ve got owt to ask I asks it.
Yorkie wrote:I have avoided the thread up until now as it seems a bit loaded.
However, at this point I just want to say that there seems to be some confusion about Libera, Libera's music & style, and the ability of the boys. Week in week out the boys form part of the choir of St Philip where they sing normal Anglican liturgical music; the same music performed by the 'better' English choirs referred to in the original post. Earlier this year I was lucky enough to attend a rather excellent performance of theirs of John Rutter's Requiem with sting quartet. It seemed every bit as good to me as what I have heard in Cathedrals with professional choirs.
Libera is something they do on the side for fun. The day job is participating in services at St Philip's twice a week on Sunday. Without Libera I suspect that it would be very difficult to recruit kids to perform in the choir. Finally, it is fine not to like their style, many Traditionalists don't. But anybody that considers WSK to be good really shouldn't be pointing out the perceived failings of other groups.
Thanks Yorkie.
I usually stay on the sidelines when a poster makes elitist comments in comparing Libera with a traditional choir. That’s because I know I can rely on you to set the record straight. As you have so wisely said, Libera’s music is quite distinct from that of the St. Philip’s Church choir. As the name suggests, Libera frees itself from the confines of traditional church music but at the same time makes sacred music accessible to a much wider audience. Its fan base transcends age, religious, cultural and geographical boundaries. That I know of, at St George’s there were attendees from Japan, Korea, Germany, Holland, France, Russia, Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, the USA – and even God’s own country, Yorkshire. At previous concerts I have met people from Italy, Belgium, Latvia, Trinidad, Spain, Mexico, China, Singapore, The Philippines, Brazil, Taiwan, Ireland and Australia.
I have been privileged to hear the St. Philip’s Church choir sing Bach, Britten, Bruckner, and without going through the alphabet, many others, at their regular church services. In my view, they are the equal of, if not better than, many of the long established and more generously funded Cathedral choirs.
By the way, I have been to live concerts of WSK (very disappointing) and TKC (excellent) – just my opinion.
