The Moon Represents My Heart (Chinese song)

[Yorkie]

I don't think the term 'over-produced' refers to tinkering around with the vocals at all; have to disagree with that because I don't hear that on this record.

Over-produced (to me) means putting in a lot of sound effects, lots of instruments (often electronic) and basically just making it sound 'bigger' than a straight recording of the boys singing in say a church. The term often gets used as a criticism of Libera because people compare their sound to that of traditional choirs (for example King's College, Cambridge) which is just a basic recording of the choir singing in a church with no added reverb or backing track. Of course that is entirely unfair because RP created Libera to be a sound unlike a traditional church choir and to explicitly include electronic sounds. When the boys do a concert they are miked and amplified which is not usual for traditional choirs.

Personally I prefer less electronic instrumentation with more emphasis on 'real' musical instruments (by real I mean actual violins and the like rather than a violin sound created on a keyboard). Luckily for me that has been the trend at their concerts for the last few years so I'm a happy man. I accept that some tracks need modern instrument sounds or that some affects can only be achieved by synthesisers and of course they are much cheaper (can't think of anything of the top of my head, maybe 'You Were There' which is essentially a pop song?).

So I guess over-produced applies to Libera if you think they should sound like a choir but it doesn't really apply if you think they are a pop group!

#edit#

I found this description of 'over-produced' which says it better than I can:

"Over-production" could be described as a recording that is meticulously created. Every note is played or tweaked perfectly. The timing/tempo is impeccable. Nothing is out of place. The vocals are 100% perfect and in-tune. The arrangements are calculated. There's no microphone leakage. The instruments were recorded cleanly. The editing is transparent. Everything about the recording is clean. The recording almost sounds like humans didn't make it at all.

I guess in essence what is one man's over-production is another man's perfect recording...........

[Lumi]

Well, yes, it's a vague term, though one that applies here very well I think. But of course rather than referring to the use of using digital instruments and special effects I was specifically talking about what has been one to the vocals. Combined with everything else, I just personally find it to be a bit too much.

The good thing is, none of that needs to be worried about in a concert.

//And to futher clarify, overproduction as a term is typically used when real vocals or instrument tracks have been tampered with. Because that's when people start to take notice. I would also beg to differ as to what most of the criticism is on: yes, oftentimes the Libera "genre" itself, but still more commonly I believe on what has been done to the boys' voices on a recording.

I also disagree with your last statement: there is a difference between when human "perfection" is achieved compared to the "perfection" of overproduced music. One sounds good, the other does not. And further, a brilliant recording can easily be destroyed by the latter in post-production.

[Yorkie]

Well, yes, it's a vague term, though one that applies here very well I think. But of course rather than referring to the use of using digital instruments and special effects I was specifically talking about what has been one to the vocals. Combined with everything else, I just personally find it to be a bit too much.

The good thing is, none of that needs to be worried about in a concert.

//And to futher clarify, overproduction as a term is typically used when real vocals or instrument tracks have been tampered with. Because that's when people start to take notice. I would also beg to differ as to what most of the criticism is on: yes, oftentimes the Libera "genre" itself, but still more commonly I believe on what has been done to the boys' voices on a recording.

I also disagree with your last statement: there is a difference between when human "perfection" is achieved compared to the "perfection" of overproduced music. One sounds good, the other does not. And further, a brilliant recording can easily be destroyed by the latter in post-production.

OK Lumi, what do you think has been done to the vocals on this track (and any other Libera recording)? Auto-tuning?

There is no dictionary or widely defined term for 'over-production' so you have developed your own definition which is fine, you are allowed to do so, but it isn't the only interpretation. What is certain is that everybody criticising Libera for an 'over-produced' sound probably have no experience in recording, mixing and producing a record.

I'm really not sure why you disagree with my last statement, which in essence is saying one man's meat is another man's poison - people like and dislike things on an individual basis and whilst you are entitled to dislike this recording it doesn't mean that everybody else has to.

Wiki defines Over-production This Way

I think this part says it nicely:

"Context-dependence of the term

The meaning and use of the term overproduction can vary based on the aesthetic preferences of the critic who uses it and the genre conventions of the record in question. A critic with a background in indie rock, for example, may have a very different idea of overproduction than a critic with a background in electronic dance music. Similarly, some critics might fault a rock record for overproduction if it seems too rhythmically "tight" or quantized but not apply the same criticism to a techno record, due to the different conventions of the two genres and the different sets of expectations that listeners bring to them.

In general there is little consensus among music critics or producers about when the use of an effect or production technique becomes excessive. For this reason, some producers consider the term unhelpful, confusing, and subjective."

I think that sums up my previous post pretty well - the critics of Libera have a belief that they should sound like traditional choirs but that is not the direction that RP has chosen to go. Who is right, the critic or the person creating the music?

[alcesalcesobservator]

I would like to quietly interject that the video's sound quality--even that of the anouncer's voice and the clips from Sanctus, etc.--seems to be a trifle poor. Just a thought. >shrugs<

[TullyBascombe]

It's definitely a "different sound" for Libera, it's tailored for a rather conservative Chinese audience. Recently I've been watching soem Chinese movies which focus on the first half of the 20th century. To me this particular piece is similar to some of the popular Chinese music of that era. In fact it was written by a Taiwanese artist in the 1970's and it was one of the first "outside" pieces allowed to become popular on the mainland in that era when China was just beginning to relax the tight cultural control of the party.
I have to admit though, that last little bit sung by Michael to me didn't sound like his voice.

I'm wondering if a complete video was made of the boys singing that piece and if the complete video will be shown.

[chris17]

I would like to quietly interject that the video's sound quality--even that of the anouncer's voice and the clips from Sanctus, etc.--seems to be a trifle poor. Just a thought. >shrugs<

I agree. I think it's going to be easier to say more about the song when we can actually hear more of it, with decent sound quality and without people talking over most of it.

[maartendas]

Announcement: The auto-tune discussion has now been moved to this topic > http://www.libera-dreams.com/forum/view ... f=7&t=1971

[labbie]

While I was looking on YouTube for other versions of this beautiful song, I discovered a couple of things. The first was an astonishingly gorgeous rendition of the song, played on the violin by a then-9 year-old Chinese girl named Jocelyn. I'm sorry that I forgot to copy the link, but if you Google "the moon represents my heart violin", you'll find it. I then discovered that Teresa Teng, the Taiwanese singer who made this song famous, suffered an untimely passing from an asthma attack at the age of 42 while vacationing in Thailand. From what I could gather, Ms. Teng was a major star in Taiwan, and I couldn't help thinking that when Libera performs this song next month, it will probably be quite an emotional moment for those who will hear Libera's gentle rendition of a song that was once performed by a beloved artist from their country.

[Max]

Hello guys,

Due to frequently discussion on the copyright of "The Moon Represents My Heart", as a local which Mandarin Chinese is my mother language, I decide to do some research on the song. First thing to mention is that I actually almost only listen to Libera's music, so I am not familiar with the writers, the singers, the audio company, and the song itself, which was created even before I was born. Besides, I nearly know nothing about the law. The only information I can get are all relied on the Internet, and here is what I get.

1. The song was actually written by Weng Ching-Shi(翁清溪) and the words were written by Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟), rather than anonym.
2. The song was published around 1973 and was originally sung by Chen Fen-Lan(陳芬蘭). However the song was once banned due to "ching ching di yi ge wen(輕輕的一個吻)", which means "a gently kiss," in the lyrics. Later, a cover made by Teresa Teng (Deng Li-Jiun 鄧麗君) oversea made the song became famous back to Taiwan, and then became one of her representative works.
3. There was actually a lawsuit on December 2012 between Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟) and Leico Record Factory Co., Ltd with both claim the copyright of the song. As a result, Leico Record Factory Co., Ltd was able to won the copyright because they actually paid Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟) for writing several songs during 1970 to 1980.

Hum... pretty complex. That's all I got from the Internet. There are actually a lot of covers done by different singers, so I still don't know which is the part that goes wrong. Again, I know nearly nothing about the law. However, I do know that there are always some people who know the law very well can make their own benefit by making legal claims against someone else, even they do know those people don't mean to invade the copyright. Maybe Libera just trying to avoid those kind of trouble since they are not-for-profit organization, and can't take such a harm to them.

Take care.

[dani]

Hello guys,

Due to frequently discussion on the copyright of "The Moon Represents My Heart", as a local which Mandarin Chinese is my mother language, I decide to do some research on the song. First thing to mention is that I actually almost only listen to Libera's music, so I am not familiar with the writers, the singers, the audio company, and the song itself, which was created even before I was born. Besides, I nearly know nothing about the law. The only information I can get are all relied on the Internet, and here is what I get.

1. The song was actually written by Weng Ching-Shi(翁清溪) and the words were written by Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟), rather than anonym.
2. The song was published around 1973 and was originally sung by Chen Fen-Lan(陳芬蘭). However the song was once banned due to "ching ching di yi ge wen(輕輕的一個吻)", which means "a gently kiss," in the lyrics. Later, a cover made by Teresa Teng (Deng Li-Jiun 鄧麗君) oversea made the song became famous back to Taiwan, and then became one of her representative works.
3. There was actually a lawsuit on December 2012 between Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟) and Leico Record Factory Co., Ltd with both claim the copyright of the song. As a result, Leico Record Factory Co., Ltd was able to won the copyright because they actually paid Suen Jia-Lin(孫家麟) for writing several songs during 1970 to 1980.

Hum... pretty complex. That's all I got from the Internet. There are actually a lot of covers done by different singers, so I still don't know which is the part that goes wrong. Again, I know nearly nothing about the law. However, I do know that there are always some people who know the law very well can make their own benefit by making legal claims against someone else, even they do know those people don't mean to invade the copyright. Maybe Libera just trying to avoid those kind of trouble since they are not-for-profit organization, and can't take such a harm to them.

Take care.

Well the issues must of come up after the official video was shot or they would not of spent money on to then never release it to the general public . Too be fair Taiwan was a success and that part of the tour is now over so its not a bid deal if its not released (IMO) as it now serves little purpose .

And they can not afford to be sued and i doubt they have the money for legal battles either to try and now get it released when the tour is basically over.

[TullyBascombe]

This is what we get for making copyrights nearly immortal. So those of us who could not be present for a concert in Taiwan will never hear the full version of Libera's "The Moon Represents My Heart".

I wonder if they paid a royalty fee for permission to sing the song at the concerts?

[PaulWSpaceRockDodger]

Now that eleven months have passed since Libera's April 2013 Taiwan tour, I was wondering whether there have been any new developments regarding videos of Libera's impressive rendition of the Chinese song "The Moon Represents My Heart". I recall that this song has some complicated copyright issues, but I still hope that somehow a full video of Libera's version will be made available to the public --- preferably an official Libera video, but if that isn't possible, is there a fan's amateur video circulating? Meanwhile, I guess I'll have to be content with the snippets of "The Moon Represents My Heart" that were included in a brief promotional ad for the tour (the song's conclusion with Michael U-R's singing --- starting at 1:32 --- is especially nice):

[TullyBascombe]

Evidently whomever owns the copyright of the song doesn't want Libera to release their version for broader circulation or is asking a price too high for a non-profit organization like Libera to pay.

[fan_de_LoK]

After 7 years Libera released today on its Youtube channel the full video of 'The Moon Represents My Heart' version 2013

[fan_de_LoK]

After 7 years, Libera official released today on its Youtube channel the full video of 'The Moon Represents My Heart' version 2013